So the fourth Sunday of the month is a little different at the Underground Church. I really didn't know that going in and was caught off guard.
Announcements are always funny. It shows some of the humor of the church and it's really nice.
Jenny did a great job with the music this morning. They need a keyboard player to help out. I don't know who out there reading this blog that might know one who might be interested, but just a bug in (coughcoughTim'scoughcough) the ear of anyone who might have some talent.
Then Pastor Kevin got up in front and started with questions that people have posed and answered them using scripture. One of them is a discussion that has been going on in virtual church (Facebook) about Does God Change His Mind. The other question was about prophecy. I was amazed at how many in the congregation had experience prophecy and were willing to share the experience. I was also challenged by this way of doing church.
To not have an agenda, to take responses from the crowd, to allow the church to think was really like being in a living room with close friends discussing politics, but it wasn't uncomfortable. It seems more real and genuine than any place I have ever worshipped. I really enjoy going there.
I think I will look forward to 4th Sundays.
Sunday, April 27, 2008
Sunday, April 20, 2008
Que Sera
Today after church (more about that in another post) we tried to go to Okie Dokie's in Swannanoa for some BBQ. I had read about it on Chowhound and Mike went by there this week and said it was really good. However, they aren't open on Sunday.
We drove down to Black Mountain and really couldn't find anything we knew about to be open and you must have reservations at the Red Rocker Inn to eat there. We were going to turn around when we found Que Sera. After perusing their menu we decided to give it a chance.
The atmosphere is quaint. It isn't a large restaurant. They do have a wine menu and they have a $4.95 mimosa special for lunch. I had the lightly blackened red fish with a Creole meuniere sauce over asiago cheese grits with black eyed peas. It was scrumptious. Mike had the eggs Benedict with Canadian bacon. It was also yummo. I did have dessert (chocolate peanut butter surprise) and it was homemade.
A great meal including tip for $36.
We drove down to Black Mountain and really couldn't find anything we knew about to be open and you must have reservations at the Red Rocker Inn to eat there. We were going to turn around when we found Que Sera. After perusing their menu we decided to give it a chance.
The atmosphere is quaint. It isn't a large restaurant. They do have a wine menu and they have a $4.95 mimosa special for lunch. I had the lightly blackened red fish with a Creole meuniere sauce over asiago cheese grits with black eyed peas. It was scrumptious. Mike had the eggs Benedict with Canadian bacon. It was also yummo. I did have dessert (chocolate peanut butter surprise) and it was homemade.
A great meal including tip for $36.
Tuesday, April 15, 2008
10,000's
In the early 90's I learned how to play this simple game with dice called 10,000's. It's a fun game and several people can play at once. It moves fairly quickly also.
Sunday night we went over to some friends (The Kwiatkowski's) for a meal and to play the game. Brooklyn loves to play with Ben and Andy (they have some pretty cool electronic toys!) so we went over about 3:15 and hung out for a while. Jan cooked a scrumptious dinner and then we played 10,000's.
After Jan won an all-adult game we brought the kiddos in and taught them how to play. Brooklyn did something I've never seen done before. She rolled 3000 points in 2 rolls. It was utterly amazing (and you would have thought that she had found gold). Yes, she won that game because none of us could catch her. I guess it was beginner's luck!
After Jan won an all-adult game we brought the kiddos in and taught them how to play. Brooklyn did something I've never seen done before. She rolled 3000 points in 2 rolls. It was utterly amazing (and you would have thought that she had found gold). Yes, she won that game because none of us could catch her. I guess it was beginner's luck!
Now that I've read the rules on Wikipedia I find that I've been playing differently than the rules say as far as scoring. The last time we played I rolled 6 ones and I should have automatically won. Oh well, we can add the point system changes now that we know about them.
Sunday School Last Post My Perceptions
After reading through the past couple of posts I just want to say this: How ever you decide to do "Christian Education" whether through small groups or Sunday School or parental partnering, please be intentional about it. Have a plan for each step and make that step clear.
The steps might change and evolve as technology changes and as culture changes but the worst way to tackle it is haphazardly and without a plan.
The steps might change and evolve as technology changes and as culture changes but the worst way to tackle it is haphazardly and without a plan.
Saturday, April 12, 2008
Sunday School part 2 - My Perceptions
Okay, so Sunday School for kids is the predominate way that children are exposed to the gospels, Old Testament and New Testament stories, crafts, and Jesus. In most denominational churches they use their denominations lessons to teach these lessons. There is a flow to the teaching as each denomination has a "Scope & Sequence" they follow so that the stories can be revisited every so many years.
My question is why? One church has their children over 4 with them in service and they have activities they do when the service gets to a certain point that reinforces the message for the children. Another has classes that the kids go to each week with papers that the parents usually end up throwing away. Another does Children's Church with high energy music and a large group bible story and then they break into small groups and do many activities that reinforce the lesson for the child.
And of course all the parents are spending time every day to teach their child the Bible and do studies with them and teach them how to pray and talk to their best friend, Jesus. Oh, they don't? Why not? Soccer games until 6:30 and then a meal on the run and the child is doing homework in the car and then a rushed shower. They can't get up early because they have to sleep.
As a church, we have told parents for the past 20-30 years: give us your children and we will teach them the Bible. Never mind that Deuteronomy says it is your job as a parent. We will handle it. We will take them to camp, have VBS, a class every Sunday morning and maybe, just maybe you will attend our Christian School where we will teach you every day bible classes.
I was meeting with a group of Christian Educators that said it took us 20-30 years for this cycle to build it isn't going to stop over night. Parents are responsible.
So where do the lines cross? What is the appropriate amount of "Christian Education" offered by the church and where do the parents fit in?
More later...
My question is why? One church has their children over 4 with them in service and they have activities they do when the service gets to a certain point that reinforces the message for the children. Another has classes that the kids go to each week with papers that the parents usually end up throwing away. Another does Children's Church with high energy music and a large group bible story and then they break into small groups and do many activities that reinforce the lesson for the child.
And of course all the parents are spending time every day to teach their child the Bible and do studies with them and teach them how to pray and talk to their best friend, Jesus. Oh, they don't? Why not? Soccer games until 6:30 and then a meal on the run and the child is doing homework in the car and then a rushed shower. They can't get up early because they have to sleep.
As a church, we have told parents for the past 20-30 years: give us your children and we will teach them the Bible. Never mind that Deuteronomy says it is your job as a parent. We will handle it. We will take them to camp, have VBS, a class every Sunday morning and maybe, just maybe you will attend our Christian School where we will teach you every day bible classes.
I was meeting with a group of Christian Educators that said it took us 20-30 years for this cycle to build it isn't going to stop over night. Parents are responsible.
So where do the lines cross? What is the appropriate amount of "Christian Education" offered by the church and where do the parents fit in?
More later...
Monday, April 7, 2008
Sunday School
Why do only about 1/4 of church attendees attend Sunday School? According to Barna...
27% of women compared to 21% of men attend Sunday school in a typical week. (2006)
38% of born again Christians and 65% of evangelicals attend Sunday school in a typical week. (2006)
Sunday school remains a draw primarily in the South, where three out of ten adults (29%) attend in a typical week. In contrast, 15% in the northeast, 26% in the Midwest and 24% in the west have attended Sunday school in a typical week. This may be related to the comparatively high incidence of Southern Baptists in the South, for whom Sunday school remains a central focus of the church. (2006)
According to the Assemblies of God website study: Sunday School teaches every person at his level of understanding. The small group, graded structure of Sunday School allows teachers to tailor Bible study for the age-level needs and interests for children, youth, and adults.
Personally, I don't want to attend Sunday School. You have 45 minutes to skim the surface of a lesson found in a quarterly, brochure, or something the class teacher (hopefully they are a gifted teacher) chooses to lecture on. You don't build relationships with the others in your class unless once a month, once a quarter, once every six months or once a year your class gets together. You usually (some churches do have options) are in class with other couples your own age (what about a 38 year old that is married to a 52 year old with a 10 year old in the house and 28 year old living on her own?) or it is a singles class (single again, etc.)
Personally, I would rather serve one hour and attend one hour if given the chance. Let me change diapers, play games with a child, rock a crying baby, take up the offering, greet, sweep the floor, make coffee, etc. How do you chose who is serving and who gets to go to class? My friends that are moms are usually teaching and never get to build relationships with others.
Personally, I like big group/small group for kids and home groups for adults.
Why? For adults you have the opportunity to build relationships. Most small groups eat together (they are people of the table - I love that title) Then they get to know each other. They help each other move, they give each other small baby showers, they mow yards for each other when their is sickness or death or they hold your hand through a failed marriage or hopefully they hold your hands together as you work to salvage your marriage.
The best Bible study I ever attended was a small group on parenting. We stayed on that topic for months and I'm a better parent for it. We prayed together, laughed together, cried together and they helped us move twice during that study!
Tomorrow I'll post why my preference is not Sunday School for kids either.
27% of women compared to 21% of men attend Sunday school in a typical week. (2006)
38% of born again Christians and 65% of evangelicals attend Sunday school in a typical week. (2006)
Sunday school remains a draw primarily in the South, where three out of ten adults (29%) attend in a typical week. In contrast, 15% in the northeast, 26% in the Midwest and 24% in the west have attended Sunday school in a typical week. This may be related to the comparatively high incidence of Southern Baptists in the South, for whom Sunday school remains a central focus of the church. (2006)
According to the Assemblies of God website study: Sunday School teaches every person at his level of understanding. The small group, graded structure of Sunday School allows teachers to tailor Bible study for the age-level needs and interests for children, youth, and adults.
Personally, I don't want to attend Sunday School. You have 45 minutes to skim the surface of a lesson found in a quarterly, brochure, or something the class teacher (hopefully they are a gifted teacher) chooses to lecture on. You don't build relationships with the others in your class unless once a month, once a quarter, once every six months or once a year your class gets together. You usually (some churches do have options) are in class with other couples your own age (what about a 38 year old that is married to a 52 year old with a 10 year old in the house and 28 year old living on her own?) or it is a singles class (single again, etc.)
Personally, I would rather serve one hour and attend one hour if given the chance. Let me change diapers, play games with a child, rock a crying baby, take up the offering, greet, sweep the floor, make coffee, etc. How do you chose who is serving and who gets to go to class? My friends that are moms are usually teaching and never get to build relationships with others.
Personally, I like big group/small group for kids and home groups for adults.
Why? For adults you have the opportunity to build relationships. Most small groups eat together (they are people of the table - I love that title) Then they get to know each other. They help each other move, they give each other small baby showers, they mow yards for each other when their is sickness or death or they hold your hand through a failed marriage or hopefully they hold your hands together as you work to salvage your marriage.
The best Bible study I ever attended was a small group on parenting. We stayed on that topic for months and I'm a better parent for it. We prayed together, laughed together, cried together and they helped us move twice during that study!
Tomorrow I'll post why my preference is not Sunday School for kids either.
Sunday, April 6, 2008
Carmel's for Brunch
We had brunch at Carmel's this morning. It was the best brunch I have had since we were in New Orleans six years ago and had brunch at Brennan's. I had tried out a new church downtown (The Underground Church that meets at the Y) and since I was done at 11:15 Mike thought brunch downtown was our best meal option and met me there. After looking at a few menus we chose Carmel's.
Mike ordered the Salmon Benny and I had Shrimp & Grits. The total was $30 with coffee and diet coke.
Honestly his meal was better than mine, but I did enjoy mine. His eggs were perfectly poached and the salmon was perfectly cooked. He also ordered a side of gravy to dip his potatoes in. I was disappointed that they don't give you a small bread basket, but they had several options reasonably priced on the menu.
I thought it was the best shrimp & grits I've eaten in Asheville. The last thing that surprised me is I don't like coffee, but theirs was very good. Mike ordered it and I tried a sip. I will order it when we go back in a few weeks after church.
Mike ordered the Salmon Benny and I had Shrimp & Grits. The total was $30 with coffee and diet coke.
Honestly his meal was better than mine, but I did enjoy mine. His eggs were perfectly poached and the salmon was perfectly cooked. He also ordered a side of gravy to dip his potatoes in. I was disappointed that they don't give you a small bread basket, but they had several options reasonably priced on the menu.
I thought it was the best shrimp & grits I've eaten in Asheville. The last thing that surprised me is I don't like coffee, but theirs was very good. Mike ordered it and I tried a sip. I will order it when we go back in a few weeks after church.
Underground Church
We are on a journey. To not only find a church where we enjoy the music, message and the environment, but where we would feel comfortable serving and growing relationships. I saw an ad in Mountain Xpress that had piqued my interest. It was for the Underground Church. It sounded interesting. I emailed the pastor (Kevin), he emailed back and we had a e-versation.
When I picked up Mountain Xpress upon leaving Wild Wings this week I found that they had a full page ad with an apology to people from the church. It was very emergent and I thought this really has some potential.
Last night Carolina lost in the final four. Mike was upset. We went to bed late. It was rough getting up early this morning. But I felt that I needed to.
So I (Mike was still in mourning) arrived at the Underground Church a little before 10 (they start at 10ish - which is about 10:15). The car that pulled into the parking space beside me had a person that was smiling. She waved. As I went in (they didn't have outdoor greeters) I was met by a smiling face (I think she was doing something for the nursery) and a greeting. She asked if I had been there before. When I told her no, she gave me directions to worship and then told me about the information on the back table.
They have great smelling coffee and some snacks available.
I started to walk into where the main service is going on (there are more visitors behind me being greeted) and see the pastor. He introduced himself and then I said, I'm Tina. He acted like he remembered from the email. I went in and took a seat near the back (I wasn't sure how loud the music would be with the set up).
Instead of using florescence's they use lamps. It was really cozy. I did see people swapping out chairs (I guess some aren't level). Several people said hi as they walked by and then the pastors wife, Angela, came and sat down in front of me and started a conversation. She was very personable. I asked her a few questions and then someone needed her with a question.
The woman leading worship had an acoustical guitar. She was quite good. They had drums, electric and bass guitar also. They also had a guy that was doing backup to the leader. It was really worshipful and I felt at easy worshipping.
During the 3rd song they did a baby dedication. It was the Pastor's niece. It was probably the most sincere, sweetest dedication I have ever seen. I don't know if because it was his family and he knows them so intimately or if it is always that way, but I had tears in my eyes and I don't even know this family.
We finished worship and then the pastor spoke. It was strange how people in the audience interacted with him during the message (not that it was bad, just different to me and when the church grows I do wonder how this will go). You could see there was genuine relationship, creativity and much preparation into Sunday morning.
He spoke on Authentic God. It was really a great message. He reminded me of Donald Miller (whom I got to hear at Orange last year) His style is emergent. It was very intelligent and very deep, while being very simplistic. He told the story of the sons of Korah from Numbers 16 (I don't remember every hearing this story). Korah, Dothan and Abiram rose up against Moses. Moses went down, spoke against their uprising (to save the community) and the ground swallowed them up. Then fire from Heaven devoured 250 people and melted everything around them. So in Psalms 46 the sons of Korah question who God is, how is He good and bad at the same time or is He. He said they do tape the messages. I didn't ask how to get a copy, but I'm going to. I want to listen to it again. He used the Rob Bell Nooma video Rain (it's on the Nooma website and you can watch it for free) at the end to reinforce the message. I can't do justice here on this blog to what he said. Take my word for it that it spoke to me.
When he finished he told everyone to say hi to someone they don't know. Several people spoke to me, including Dee who I found used to go to Covenant. I asked her about the Children's Ministry. They only have about 7 kids that attend sporadically that are over 5 (they have a ton of babies...which is the sign of a growing church according to Gary Lamb). They are working on growing their children's ministry. They really don't have a youth group because they don't have many youth. But they do have family things (which is most important to me).
Upcoming...April 12th is game night. The last Saturday of the Month is Dudes no Limit. They get together and have some fun. They also do something called the Savory Plate where there is a theme and people bring food and they share a meal (sounds like fun). Anyways, we will continue to check it out for the next few weeks. I'll share Brooklyn's perception (if she lets me) next week.
Overall I really liked it. It was extremely friendly and I felt comfortable there.
Have a great week!
When I picked up Mountain Xpress upon leaving Wild Wings this week I found that they had a full page ad with an apology to people from the church. It was very emergent and I thought this really has some potential.
Last night Carolina lost in the final four. Mike was upset. We went to bed late. It was rough getting up early this morning. But I felt that I needed to.
So I (Mike was still in mourning) arrived at the Underground Church a little before 10 (they start at 10ish - which is about 10:15). The car that pulled into the parking space beside me had a person that was smiling. She waved. As I went in (they didn't have outdoor greeters) I was met by a smiling face (I think she was doing something for the nursery) and a greeting. She asked if I had been there before. When I told her no, she gave me directions to worship and then told me about the information on the back table.
They have great smelling coffee and some snacks available.
I started to walk into where the main service is going on (there are more visitors behind me being greeted) and see the pastor. He introduced himself and then I said, I'm Tina. He acted like he remembered from the email. I went in and took a seat near the back (I wasn't sure how loud the music would be with the set up).
Instead of using florescence's they use lamps. It was really cozy. I did see people swapping out chairs (I guess some aren't level). Several people said hi as they walked by and then the pastors wife, Angela, came and sat down in front of me and started a conversation. She was very personable. I asked her a few questions and then someone needed her with a question.
The woman leading worship had an acoustical guitar. She was quite good. They had drums, electric and bass guitar also. They also had a guy that was doing backup to the leader. It was really worshipful and I felt at easy worshipping.
During the 3rd song they did a baby dedication. It was the Pastor's niece. It was probably the most sincere, sweetest dedication I have ever seen. I don't know if because it was his family and he knows them so intimately or if it is always that way, but I had tears in my eyes and I don't even know this family.
We finished worship and then the pastor spoke. It was strange how people in the audience interacted with him during the message (not that it was bad, just different to me and when the church grows I do wonder how this will go). You could see there was genuine relationship, creativity and much preparation into Sunday morning.
He spoke on Authentic God. It was really a great message. He reminded me of Donald Miller (whom I got to hear at Orange last year) His style is emergent. It was very intelligent and very deep, while being very simplistic. He told the story of the sons of Korah from Numbers 16 (I don't remember every hearing this story). Korah, Dothan and Abiram rose up against Moses. Moses went down, spoke against their uprising (to save the community) and the ground swallowed them up. Then fire from Heaven devoured 250 people and melted everything around them. So in Psalms 46 the sons of Korah question who God is, how is He good and bad at the same time or is He. He said they do tape the messages. I didn't ask how to get a copy, but I'm going to. I want to listen to it again. He used the Rob Bell Nooma video Rain (it's on the Nooma website and you can watch it for free) at the end to reinforce the message. I can't do justice here on this blog to what he said. Take my word for it that it spoke to me.
When he finished he told everyone to say hi to someone they don't know. Several people spoke to me, including Dee who I found used to go to Covenant. I asked her about the Children's Ministry. They only have about 7 kids that attend sporadically that are over 5 (they have a ton of babies...which is the sign of a growing church according to Gary Lamb). They are working on growing their children's ministry. They really don't have a youth group because they don't have many youth. But they do have family things (which is most important to me).
Upcoming...April 12th is game night. The last Saturday of the Month is Dudes no Limit. They get together and have some fun. They also do something called the Savory Plate where there is a theme and people bring food and they share a meal (sounds like fun). Anyways, we will continue to check it out for the next few weeks. I'll share Brooklyn's perception (if she lets me) next week.
Overall I really liked it. It was extremely friendly and I felt comfortable there.
Have a great week!
Wednesday, April 2, 2008
This Sunday
I was perusing Mountain Express last week and ran across a blurb for a new church in Asheville. I was interested and emailed the pastor. We've had a pleasant conversation this week with him explaining their congregation and how their church works.
Then tonight I picked up a Mountain Express on my way out of Wild Wings. (Normally I wouldn't admit this but Mike kicked my butt at trivia tonight. In fact he got over 13,000 points and is #1 on the board at Wild Wings. I won't even say what my score was...it was horrible.)
In the Mountain Express there was a full page ad from the church we have been looking at and let me say I think I'm going Sunday to check it out. I think they are honestly interested in reaching people that aren't being reached. I think they are doing it in a very positive and open way - with an apology.
I'll post my review of the church on Monday.
Then tonight I picked up a Mountain Express on my way out of Wild Wings. (Normally I wouldn't admit this but Mike kicked my butt at trivia tonight. In fact he got over 13,000 points and is #1 on the board at Wild Wings. I won't even say what my score was...it was horrible.)
In the Mountain Express there was a full page ad from the church we have been looking at and let me say I think I'm going Sunday to check it out. I think they are honestly interested in reaching people that aren't being reached. I think they are doing it in a very positive and open way - with an apology.
I'll post my review of the church on Monday.
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